While your point is superb, the phrasing in spots (especially the title) is likely to be the cause of a fair bit of the agitation in the comments.

However, I can't see why anyone would give a crap about the people complaining, as they either didn't read what you wrote or don't understand it.

>The point s/he was making is that the JLPT is meant to assess your level of Japanese. If you're trying to learn Japanese because you want to know the language (ie, if you're a Japanophile/Wapanese/Weebo/whatever-the-hell-else-we're-called-these-days or otherwise interested in the language) then you shouldn't think of the test as all your knowledge goal. The test estimates the knowledge you have in its own way. Yes, it's rather a good indicator of many parts of your knowledge; no, that does not mean that passing N1 will mean that you're a perfect Nihongo speaker.

TL;DR: if you're really into learning ANYTHING because you genuinely like it and want to advance, to grow, to learn more- don't study for a test. If you pass the test, then good. If you don't, then don't take it as a crushing defeat; don't think it means you suck or should quit or something. Don't simply study the test questions. The questions are meant to assess parts of the test that have been determined to be important for one reason or another, but they don't assess your overall knowledge of Nihongo. Assessing anyone's knowledge of any subject that is not VERY simple is next to impossible. It's still a good idea, however, to get to know the gist of things you'll be dealing with if you're going to go up against that beast.

>Also, as an avid Linguiphile, I should affirm what was said about studying: yes,I know it's has been repeated by your teachers for years that cramming won't get you to pass, and you crammed, and you passed. However, I guarantee that you will not understand something as well in the long term if you cram the night before the test as opposed to someone of the same intellect as you who took a few minutes a day to study. Or can you truly list the Presidents, in the right order, from memory?
>>Sidenote: while your teachers were and are correct, the evidence has only been around for a few years, as Neuroscience is a very new (and particularly novel) thing. Check PubMed (something of an archive of peer-reviewed, syndicated research articles, run by the National Institute of Health) if you want verification or further reading.

>For anyone particularly interested in language(s) in general, and how they interact with and effect thoughts and behaviour, I suggest looking into Neurolinguistics (the science of the stuff I said in this sentence). (Just trying to share my enthusiasm.) Some of my favorite tidbits:
>>There's a tribe of Native Australians that whose greeting (everything from 'Hi/Kon' to 'How are you/Ogenki desu ka.') means literally 'What direction are you going?' The language co-developed with the tirbe's survival needs, which necessitate geographic knowledge. These people almost never get lost, even going vast distances with in unfimiliar routes, and they always know which direction they are facing (N, SE, WNW, etc.). Our chronological order for things is L>R U>D. Researchers couldn't understand these people's order until they took into account the direction they were facign at the time: their chronological ordering for things, is EAST to WEST. Isn't that great?! :D
>>Russian-speakers are quicker to identify various shades of blues than, say, English or Spanish speakers- but, is only true when they take a WRITTEN test! ^_^ There's something about the written word and the related Neuropathways in the brain that make them quicker! This is even better demonstrated by bilingual Russians: they consistently identify blues better when taking a written Russian test as opposed to a written english/spanish/other test. And why Russian, you might ask? Russian has more words for different types of blues!

Putting N1 or even N2 on your resume is a huge plus.  The same applies for schools even at a lower exam level.

Most jobs in Japan require JLPT1.
Most daily life, even at work in Japan, only requires somewhere between level 3 and 2.
Cramming like hell to pass the test does the trick there, you don't need to remember the level 1 stuff long term, you just need the bit of paper to get the job.

No offence, but somebody with an essentially non-existent level of Japanese (such as yourself) really shouldn't be telling others what to do.

Your advice is completely based upon conjecture and speculation. If your suggestions possess any sibilance of correctness, it is merely luck.

Just because you purchase a bunch of Japanese stuff and register a domain name doesn't make you a credible authority on a topic. Stop giving advice to people.

You are simply under qualified. Perhaps you should stop talking about learning Japanese and just learn Japanese.

thanks.
Now i know where i went wrong.
Actually I've known it all along, but ..-.-'

yeah.

Experts in the theory of language assessment would say that JLPT has poor construct validity - in other words the test doesn't actually test the specific abilities that it claims to measure. It claims to test people's ability to communicate in Japanese, but in fact it is a test of knowledge of grammar, vocabulary and Kanji.

Having said that, it IS very possible (in my experience, easiest) to broaden vocabulary and grammar knowledge by communicating in Japanese, and reading lots of interesting texts is probably the most efficient way to learn more Kanji. So I plan to do as much communicating as possible, with perhaps the odd practice test here and there, and see how I get on with JLPT N3 at the end of this year. The exam helps to motivate me.

See below.

edit: take the n4/n5.

I can understand if someone takes the jlpt to get a job. But I don't understand these fools who are taking it as motivation or a stepping stone or to see where they are at. Those are the most common reasons I hear people giving for taking it. There is a fool born every minute. Anyone who passed the lower levels of jlpt is a moron because only a moron would the n4 or n5. Imagine taking a test that is remedial and only proves that your ability is remedial and then being proud of yourself for passing it. It is so ridiculous.

Why would you need to insult people who want to take the N4 or N5? It is great that you are so proficient in Japanese but let people learn at their own pace :) The lower levels are only remedial to people who know a lot of Japanese. There are many people who do not consider N4/N5 remedial since the passing rate is around 50% in the United States. Putting down other people won't make you feel any better about yourself.

Whether a test is remedial or not has nothing to do with the passing rate. The people who choose to take the N4 and N5 are generally those with extremely low Japanese proficiency. So what their passing rate is is irrelevant. If a bunch of people who are horrible at something have trouble doing well at that thing, that is no indication that the thing is difficult. It is foolish of these people to waste their time and money on taking a remedial test. And it is laughable that after they take it, if they pass, they pat themselves on their own backs for success. What success? Success in passing something remedial? These levels of the jlpt are nothing but a scam. Many websites are parasitically feeding off of and encouraging this scam because they make money through commissions when new learners buy jlpt study materials through links on their sites. This is why so many sites encourage the taking of the lower levels of the jlpt. It is about time someone told the truth about it. These low levels of the jlpt are a complete waste of time. They gain the taker nothing that the person couldn't better have without taking it and they only prove incompetence in the language. If you find the truth insulting, well, maybe you need to absorb what that means and learn something from it.

I am not insulted personally (since I have already taken and passed my lower-level JLPT exam.) I am just surprised that you would be scornful of people who are proud of their own success. Of course, passing a low-level JLPT exam is not a success for you. But it is a SUCCESS FOR THEM. And maybe now they will work hard and be able to learn enough Japanese to take a higher-level exam (if they so choose.) Not to mention the fact that they are simply weak at Japanese RIGHT NOW. That doesn't mean that they won't get better in time. If people weren't able to learn over time, there would be no point in school since you either know everything right at the start or you are horrible, correct?

The fact that you are calling other people morons and fools for taking a test (as if they were committing a crime or something)... I'm sorry that you're not happy, in general. Please try to have a good day. That's all.

Oh, you can't win your argument fair and square so you have to try to make some false character assassination about whether I am happy or not. You would have no idea whether I am or am not as you know not a thing about me. I hate fake people. "Have a nice day." What a fake you are. I tell the truth. I frankly don't give a damn about what sort of day you have. So I do know one thing about you. You are a passive aggressive fake.

As to the matter at hand ignoring red herrings, it is moronic to pay money and take time out of your day (including travel and a hotel room for many people) in order to take a test that only proves one's incompetence in a subject. If these people are going to be competent at Japanese later then it would be much more practical and make more sense to wait until LATER to take a test that does show some competence rather than actually spending money to take one that only shows their extreme level of incompetence. And it is pretty pathetic that someone would find "SUCCESS" in such a test that covers only the most remedial knowledge of a subject. And exactly why is it that they need to take these remedial tests before they "work hard" and achieve any measure of actual proficiency? Why do they have to dangle this sad little test in front of their own noses like a carrot in front of a horse in order to have the motivation to study? Do they lack will power, too? I think I have to add weak to foolish in my assessment.

I think you're looking at this the wrong way. For example, when you start off a big project, what's one of the first things most (successful) people do? They set up goals and respective deadlines. Would you tackle that long and difficult task by saying, "I will complete this project by the end of the year by working hard" or would you instead take an approach more akin to "In order to finish this project I must first finish tasks X, Y and Z?" It's the same here. These people have an ultimate goal of becoming fluent in Japanese. Consequently, they break up that ultimate goal into subsidiary prerequisites, and seek to fulfill them sequentially. While it is not necessary to pass the N5 to be proficient in Japanese, anybody who is proficient in Japanese would very easily pass the N5. Does passing the N5 have any significance in itself? No. Taking the N5 and claiming success over it would be like saying a rough draft is an accomplishment. And in some cases, it is. On the other hand, even if we drop this whole concept of ultimate goals, there is yet purpose in taking the N5. It is an exam, and what exams do is assess one's progress. If these people assessed themselves or asked friends for their assessments, it would be riddled with bias. An examination administered by an unknown proctor and graded and returned anonymously does not suffer this flaw and offers a less biased, if not more accurate, assessment of one's skill. After all, is it not logical to make sure one's foundation is sound before choosing to build upon it? Though, I do suppose confidence is a virtue...

What utter nonsense. Firstly, successful people are self-motivated and able to stay on task without the prod of an external motivator like a test. As to your argument about the JLPT being necessary for somebody to mark their progress, if they are taking the N5 then they have a fair idea of what their competence is...virtually nil. How did they go about determining which level to take unless they already had pretty solid indicators of their general level of competence? Why are they paying to have their incompetence confirmed to them? If a person wishes to mark their progress in a language, they can certainly do so without paying a company a hefty fee. In fact, JLPT practice tests are available for free on the JLPT website so there is no need to pay if an independent verification is all that is wanted. Frankly, though, I find it hard to believe someone doesn't have a pretty good idea of their language competence. There has been no point in my Japanese language studies that I didn't know exactly how far along I was. When I could understand nothing being said on a Japanese drama--total incompetence. Now I can understand about half--intermediate. When I can read most of an adult fiction novel, that is clearly low advanced. Etcetera. Those are just examples. Obviously there are numerous other indicators such as knowledge of grammar. How much of my grammar books do I understand? What level are these books? If beginner books are remedial for me then it is rather obvious I am no longer a beginner. How many kanji do I know? Why in the world would I need to pay a testing company to tell me the obvious? I am just stunned by the complete lack of common sense involved with somebody needing a test to tell them how good they are. Do you really need Simon Cowell to know if you are a horrible singer or a talented singer? Are people really too stupid or delusional to be able to figure this out on there own? Incredible.

You say that you are "intermediate" so that would put you well below my level. Having said that, I would never dream of calling you "incompetent" because that would be holding you up to my standards when you have standards of your own. 

Are you competent enough to edit and translate product brochures between Japanese and English to tight deadlines? Are you competent enough to discuss production line schedules with Japanese co-workers and resolve production  issues?

While I assume the answers to those two questions were both "No", it's actually irrelevant. I'm only doing this to show you how you've been talking about people around the N5/N4 level. 

They are "competent" in the sense that they can hold very basic conversations in Japanese - something expected at the beginner level. 

You're "competent" in the sense that you can partially follow a Japanese drama without subtitles (correct me if I'm wrong there) - something which may be expected at around the intermediate level. 

I'm "competent" in the sense that I am comfortable with the majority of the things associated with being at the advanced/upper-advanced level. 

Being "competent" simply means having the sufficient or suitable skills/knowledge for some purpose/task. So, as you can clearly see, "competence" depends heavily on the context. 

I agree with you on the point that the N5/N4 level tests are not great value for money, but to label people at that level as "extremely incompetent" is certainly the wrong way to go about getting people to agree with your view on a topic. 
 

The practice tests have like 20 questions. I do, do them but it simply isn't enough. It's like a quiz, the easier levels of JPLT. I mean seriously, it's good to know your weakpoints and study up on it. I mean you may not focus on passing it but its good to access yourself to see if you truly understand what you have learned in a test. It's kinda like those shitty projects you do at school to practice or something. Not useful but still helps a bit. However, I believe just practicing in real life situations such as watching dramas, reading books talking to people etc help more

Spot on as usual. The basic issue at hand here, which is the prominent problem for nearly all adult foreign language learners, is the crucial difference between "acquisition" and "learning" as Krashen puts it. The latter involves conscious memorization of facts "about" the language, and although interesting to many, does little to build actual fluency in a language. Studying for tests falls squarely in this category.

I did take the JLPT (it was good to have on my resume while working in Japan), but doing well on the test should not be the goal. Focus on acquiring the language itself, and you will not only kick ass on the test (if you do decide to take it) but you will actually enjoy the process!

Yes, finally a good excuse to drop all those textbooks! While the JLPT can be an indicator of one's abilities, one should not study to pass, rather study so your Japanese can be useful.

Having a deadline (aka Test day) does help out some slackers (ie. me) though, but the focus should be for long term retention I giess.

I liked having the JLPT (level 2) as a collection of things that I could use as a framework for my self-study. I don't do as well without a specific well-defined goal, so having that test is what I really needed to send me on a reasonable path of actual study as opposed to goal-less dithering. I gave myself a little over a year and did no cramming, just everyday study.

In the midst of studying for the test, I got an interview with a Japanese company (my current employer!), and I think that my studying helped give me the confidence to be able to do that and be awesome. I also did other things for study, including weekly conversations with a native Japanese speaker.

I'm glad to hear it gave you confidence and you got the job!

The JLPT tests seem to often be chosen as a goal or focus for Japanese learners. The main thing to keep in mind is the material, not the test itself. But I definitely understand how people can attach themselves to a pre-defined set criteria of information. It makes it easier for students to look at Japanese in small chunks rather than one big scary black hole. (O_O)

Japanese (and any language) can certainly be a big scary black hole! You seem to be attacking that black hole with RTK as your first major goalpost. I actually took 3.5 years of Japanese classes, so when I finally got to self-study (after a couple years of dutifully forgetting most of what I learned in classes), I had a lot stronger of a baseline. I think the hardest part in self-study is getting past those first hurdles of grammar and get to the point where you mostly know what a sentence means except for that one mystery word or whatever.

I never did anything like RTK, and generally did the kanji in context route (not the textbook, although I do have that), and even now learning new kanji isn't too hard for me. And there are getting to be fewer and fewer I haven't come across. It's great when you finally get to the point where you can see a new kanji compound, realize that you know the kanji individually and can work out both the approximate meaning and the pronunciation without a dictionary.

Although I'm not sure if I really fully support the AJATT method (it can be very difficult to do full immersion in a regular work environment, and I believe that teachers and classes have merit), it is a very enticing spiel.

I realized attacking head-on was the best choice I had! ^_~

You're right, it can be very difficult to do a full immersion environment, but I think the trick is to do it slowly. Most people think of just jumping in and changing everything, but that's not really the case. As Khatzumoto of AJATT has said before, simply change something small every day and eventually you'll just BE in a full immersion environment.

I won't go much more into that now as I plan to do a full write up of AJATT in the near future, plus you can expect more articles like 5 Ways to Immerse Yourself While at Work from me as I learn how to slowly transform my daily life!

Nice post. I would agree that the test is just a test, so blah. But, if you want to PASS JLPT N1, you're going to NEED to study FOR the test. There is just no other way around it. The items that are introduced are very test specific, so you have to prepare for JLPT Japanese. For level N2 and below, I think you could pass the test without specifically studying for the exam and simply rely on your real Japanese knowledge. I'm not 100% sure though, as I have only ever taken JLPT1 back in 2003, and passed, but I specifically studied for that exam.

That said, good luck! Only about a month left to study right? Ganbare!

- Harvey

I pretty much agree. JLPT1 is very test specific and contains a lot of stuff you won't use often in everyday Japanese. That said, being able to study that and retain the information (even just in the short term) is demonstrating certain skills - those such as determination, the ability to concentrate, a high level of Japanese (because, like it or lump it, JLPT1 speed reading is bloody difficult!)

But as RF said, studying for the test alone is perhaps not the best way of improving one's overall fluency or strength in Japanese. It all depends on what you want to use your Japanese for. You'll hardly need JLPT1 for watching Japanese dramas or chatting with Japanese friends, but if you want to work in Japan, it's the minimum level you need to get by and most importantly it's the yardstick employers look for. I would guess that there aren't many employers who have the time to do a thorough test of your Japanese ability in an interview, so having passed the exam saves a lot of time trying to prove to them that you are competent.

Also, while I don't want to discourage or frighten you, JLPT1 is still a long way from native fluency and there are much harder tests out there like the 日本語検定 exam.

Isn't that what makes learning Japanese so interesting and fun, knowing that there is always more to learn? ^^;

It just depends on how you actually prepare, or rather how you define preparation. I don't see "preparing" as a beneficial thing if you're simply learning those concepts/kanji/things for a brief moment to pass the JLPT N1.

However, if you're actually adding that information to long term memory, then that's a different story because now you're not really "preparing" FOR the JLPT, you're simply advancing your language skills utilizing the JLPT requirements as a resource and being able to pass the JLPT is now a side effect.

Like I've mentioned in the article and in comments, the JLPT is a great resource, partially for the fact that you now get to encounter those items that you wouldn't have otherwise, like you mentioned.

Overall, it just boils down to how and why you study. ^_^;

I have not met those people who just want aim to pass the test but I do see a few online. For me, I treat JLPT as a stepping stone, a head start, a starting point for me to achieve fluency in the language because I need to start a somewhere. You know what? I do hate dickhe@d who pass the test with flying color then show it off to others while proclaiming they have master Japanese <insert facepalm="" here="" image="">.

Well said! We must always have a goal in mind & not just pass the test. I amaze that SRS is an effective tool to learn. </insert>

I agree! The JLPT is meant to be a stepping stone as well as a good "starting place". We must study the knowledge hoping to actually learn it, not to pass a test and show it off like you said. (^_^)